What Did Most Germans Know About the Nazi Concentration Camp System?
95
What Did Germans Really Know? Part I of IV
Shortly after the Allied forces overran the concentration camps and the West became fully aware of the extent of Nazi atrocities, the culpability of the German people began to be questioned. How much, if anything, did the average German know about the concentration camps?
To what degree were the German people involved? Were most Germans completely in the dark or did they have knowledge of conditions inside the camps? Scholarly works have been written to defend German ignorance and innocence and to deny it.
This essay will not argue culpability or degree of culpability of different segments of the German population. However, based on the testimony of American soldiers who served in the European theater of operations during World War II, conclusions will be drawn concerning German knowledge of concentration camps.
A distinction should be made between concentration camps and death camps. It is perhaps legitimate to argue that some German civilians knew little about the death camps as they were not located on German soil and were constructed and operated with a degree of secrecy.
Konnilyn Feig (well-respected Holocaust author) thinks a great deal was known by a great many people. “Hitler exterminated the Jews of Europe. But he did not do so alone. The task was so enormous, complex, time-consuming, and mentally and economically demanding that it took the best efforts of millions of Germans…. All spheres of life in Germany actively participated."
"Businessmen, policemen, bankers, doctors, lawyers, soldiers, railroad and factory workers, chemists, pharmacists, foremen, production managers, economists, manufacturers, jewelers, diplomats, civil servants, propagandists, film makers and film stars, professors, teachers, politicians, mayors, party members, construction experts, art dealers, architects, landlords, janitors, truck drivers, clerks, industrialists, scientists, generals, and even shopkeepers—all were essential cogs in the machinery that accomplished the final solution.”[1]
However, the same argument cannot be made with respect to concentration camps on German soil. Their construction, often close to major population centers, began just months after Hitler’s accession to power in 1933. In fact during the early years of Hitler’s regime, most concentration camp inmates were German or Austrian citizens and many of them served limited sentences before being released.
It begs believability to think that these individuals did not discuss their experience with family and close friends. German authorities knew they would talk. One of the functions of the camp system was to terrorize the local populace and motivate them to obedience. Fairly widespread public knowledge of the camps was necessary in order to produce a fearful, quiescent, more easily subdued population.
The first-hand experiences and reports of American GIs confirm that German civilians must have known about the camps. Of course the extent of a person’s knowledge might depend upon age, experience, profession or job, and proximity to a particular camp.
American GIs believed German civilians knew a great deal and many were indignant and angry at the almost universal German claims of ignorance.[2] Repeatedly, soldiers reported that German civilians denied any knowledge of the camps.[3]
In his memoir, William Warde who served with the 232nd Infantry Regiment, recorded that, “All of the locals were adamant that they were ‘nicht Nazi’ and didn’t have any idea what had taken place at the concentration camp.”[4]
Present at Buchenwald, Arthur L. Johnson recalled a bitter and shocking memory “…all these people who claimed they didn’t know anything about it…and [they were] just 10 or 15 miles from Weimar.”[5] Staff Sergeant Whiteway of the 99th Infantry Division noted that according to them “no [German] ever saw a concentration camp or an atrocity.”[6]
Combat Surgeon Brendan Phibbs heard German after German plead, “nie gemurtet, nie gemurtet, we never suspected.”[7] Staff Sergeant Powell traveled across the German countryside and regularly heard civilians announce that they were, of course, anti-fascists and then disclaim any knowledge of the camps.[8]
Official military histories confirm that the typical German response was to deny knowledge of, and disclaim any responsibility for, the concentration camps.[9]
To Be Continued:
[1] Konnilyn Feig. Hitler’s Death Camps: The Sanity of Madness, (New York: Holmes and Meier Publishers, 1981), (hereafter cited as Hitler’s Death Camps), 13.
[2] John R. Hallowell, Gunter Plaut, oral history interviews, International Liberator’s Conference, October 1981, Washington DC, (hereafter cited as ILC); George Wehmoff, Bert Weston, oral history interview transcripts, Emory University, Robert F. Crawford Witness to the Holocaust Project, (hereafter cited as Emory); Johnson, 2, interview transcript, JCRC-ADL of Minnesota and the Dakotas, (hereafter cited as JCRC); Thomas Hale, The Cauldron, 1943-1945: Recollections and Letters of a Field Service Driver, (Hines Point, Vineyard, New Haven, 1990), (hereafter cited as The Cauldron), 97; David Malachowsky, Days of Remembrance –Victims of the Holocaust, (Department of Defense, Washington DC, 1989), (hereafter cited as Days), 32; Victor Wiegard, interview, ILC; Robert Perelman, 2, Frank Bezares, 6, Joseph B. Kushlis, 10, William Jucksh, 9, Henry Birnbrey , 6, interview transcripts, Emory; John B. MacDonald, 2, Theresa Ast - Holocaust Witness Dissertation Project Questionnaire, (hereafter cited as Ast Project).
[3] Lionel Rothbard, 3 June 1993, letter to Theresa Ast; Sherman V. Hasbrouck, Brigadier General, “Reflections on the 97th Infantry Division,” 18 June 1988, 97th Infantry Division Papers, United States Army Military History Institute, Carlisle Barracks, Pennsylvania, (hereafter cited as MHI); Bert P. Ezell, Albert Duncan, oral history interviews, Dallas Memorial Center for Holocaust Studies at Southern Methodist University, circa 1980, (hereafter cited as DMC); Robert Zimmer, Ernest James, oral history interviews, United States Holocaust Memorial Museum Research Institute, Record Group 50.030, 1990-1992, (hereafter cited as USHMM); Manfred Steinfeld, interview, Holocaust Memorial Foundation of Illinois – Oral History Documentation Project, 1982-1984, (hereafter cited as HMFI); Jack R. Blake, 6, Floyd Samuel Gibson, 2 T. J. Lewis, 6, Robert McIsaac, 3, Dee Richard Eberhart, 2, Arthur L. Samuelson, 2, 11, Ast Project; Howard Wiseburg, 2, 3, 10, Bill Allison, 10, W. W. Dunagan, 6, Joseph B. Kushlis, 10, interview transcripts, Emory; Marvin M. Josephs, interview, Oral Documentation Project of the Holocaust Center of Greater Pittsburgh, (hereafter cited as ODP); Ralph Mueller and Jerry Turk, Report After Action: The Story of the 103rd Infantry Division, (Innsbruck: Wagnerische Universitats-Buchdruckerei, 1945) 131; Robert Sharon Allen, Lucky Forward, The History of Patton’s Third U.S. Army, (New York: Vanguard Press, 1947), (hereafter cited as Lucky Forward ), 370; Eric Lieseroff, cited in Yaffa Eliach and Brana Gurewitsch, Liberators: Eyewitness Accounts of the Liberation of the Concentration Camps, (New York: Center for Holocaust Studies, Documentation and Research, 1981), (hereafter cited as Liberators), 2; Frederick Walters, interview, Holocaust Oral History Archive of Gratz College, Pennsylvania, (hereafter cited as Gratz).
[4] William Warde, 27 July 1993, letter to Theresa Ast, (Company A, 232nd Regiment, 42nd Infantry Division).
[5] Arthur L. Johnson, 2, interview transcript, JCRC.
[6] Curtis Whiteway, 99th Infantry Division Papers, MHI, 11.
[7] Brendan Phibbs, The Other Side of Time: A Combat Surgeon in World War II, (Boston: Little, Brown and Company, 1987), (hereafter cited as Other Side), 334.
[8] Theodore Powell, Winter 1993, interview by Theresa Ast, (232nd Regiment, 42nd Infantry Division).
[9] History, 1st Battalion, 232nd Infantry Regiment, 42nd Infantry Division, to Headquarters, 13 May 1945, 42nd Infantry Division Papers, MHI ; Prisoner of War and Displaced Persons Division, Reconnaissance Report, April 1945, Record Group 332, National Archives and Records Administration, Washington, DC, (hereafter cited as NARA).
Related Articles - Concentration Camps, American GIs
- American GI's and German Soldiers
Considering that America was engaged in a war against Germany, American soldiers, with few exceptions, entertained fairly positive, even sympathetic feelings for German soldiers and civilians. After the war veterans were asked to name their favorite - Part II -- U.S. Soldiers Liberate and Enter Nazi Con...
American GIs discovered many concentration camps as they defeated the German army in World War II. U.S. soldiers were en route to military targets and were unprepared to address the human misery they found in the camps; most stayed for a few hours an - What Did Most Germans Know About Nazi Concentration ...
American Armored and Infantry Division soldiers were among the first western individuals to enter the Nazi concentration camps. They found horrors beyond anything they might have expected: disease, starvation, evidence of atrocities and denial. - Secondary Sources on American Veterans, the Holocaus...
Primary Historical resources are extremely useful, but they can be difficult to access. So most of us need to rely on Secondary Sources. The following is a detailed list of scholarly books which is relevant to American Soldiers during World War II, t - U.S. Soldiers Liberate and Enter Nazi Concentra...
When they first entered the Concentration camps, what did American Soldiers do? What were they prepared to do? As the liberators were ordered to move forward to their assigned military objectives, who replaced them? Essay based on government document - A Last Look at American GI's and German Soldiers Dur...
World War II veterans said little about their experiences when they came home, but later in life they gave interviewed, responded to questionnaires, and contributed letter, photographs, diaries, and journals to historical archives. A number of them s - Another Look at the Interaction of American GI's and...
Most World War II GI's were horrified and morally outraged by their experience in the concentration camps, however, moral outrage did not always lead to retaliation and abuse of German soldiers. Some GIs stressed the importance of the Geneva Conventi - What Did Most Germans Know about Nazi Concentration ...
This article recounts the experiences of American GI's who discovered concentration camps large and small spread through out Germany. They were so horrified and incensed by what they had seen, they rounded up German civilians, men and women, and comp - What Most Germans Knew About the Nazi Concentration ...
In their oral history testimonies, letters, questionnaires, interviews, and journals American soldiers explain why they did not accept German protestations of ignorance and innocence. GIs from the 42nd, 45th, 71st, 88th, and 103rd Infantry Divisions,
You Might Be interested in these History Articles
- The Hereditary Health Courts of Nazi Germany
The Hereditary Health Courts of Nazi Germany gave rulings whereby at east 375,00 german people were forcibly sterllised to stop - Queen Victoria's Grandchildren- the effect on World ...
Victoria and Albert were married for 21 years- not a particularly long marriage but their nine children and 36 grand children had a great effect on the shaping of the world in the early twentieth century - A Last Look at American GI's and German Soldiers Dur...
World War II veterans said little about their experiences when they came home, but later in life they gave interviewed, responded to questionnaires, and contributed letter, photographs, diaries, and journals to historical archives. A number of them s - Henry VIII- the Wolsey years
Henry VIIIth, King of England was born the second son of the monarch but when his brother died he became heir. He emerged from a sheltered childhood to be a dominating and perhaps one of our most wel known Kings.
World War II Infantry
 | Amazon Price: $3.84 List Price: $7.99 |
 | Amazon Price: $15.99 List Price: $20.00 |
 | Amazon Price: $9.99 |
 | Amazon Price: $4.24 List Price: $23.99 |
 | Amazon Price: $25.44 List Price: $39.95 |
 | Amazon Price: $8.95 List Price: $19.99 |
 | Amazon Price: $8.74 List Price: $18.00 |
vote upvote downshareprintflag
- Useful (10)
- Funny
- Awesome (6)
- Beautiful
- Interesting (21)
CommentsLoading...
Even for the ordinary German citizens who were only partially in the loop, it's predictable that they would deny all knowledge of concentration camps within Germany itself. Understandably, they would want to avoid getting sucked into the war crimes tribunals. Even if they did not become targets of investigation, their testimonies would have put them at risk of being killed by war criminals who managed to evade the dragnet.
WannaB- Lots of research. I read books and journals, visited government archives, but I was fortunate in being able to gather a great deal of information from World War II veterans themselves. I put together a letter explaining my research project and a questionnaire and mailed it to a few retired GI's whose addresses I had.
I also was able to find the addresses for the association news-letters of companies, regiments, and divisions that had participated in liberating the camps. They published short pieces about my research and encouraged their members to contact me.
From there it was the proverbial snowball effect. Every veteran that filled out the questionnaire sent me the names and addresses of fellow veterans to contact. They also sent letters, pictures, journals, and articles they had written right after the war. They were incredibly helpful and generous. It was an honor to work with them and tell their story.
Larry- There was actually no chance that the average German citizen would get sucked into the war crimes tribunals. Very early after the end of hostilities the Americans made it known publicly that they were only going after the pretty big and really big fish - the top tier.
They realized early on they did not have the time or manpower to prosecute the entire German population and they understood how unfair it would be to prosecute people for what they knew or heard. They went after the Nazi perpetrators, the engineers of the system, the real butchers.
Unfortunately many of the very top tier Nazi officials and military had seen the end coming and made preparations to escape and were never caught (some ending up in South America, of course). The great majority of Germans who were detained and prosecuted were second tier war criminals.
Thanks for visiting and leaving comments. I appreciate it. If this area of history interests you, I have other Hubs and will keep adding to them in the future.
phdast7: This article is excellent. I have no doubt whatsoever in my mind that the German people knew what was going on. I've lived in Germany and I know there is a general feeling of guilt, especially of the people of that generation, for the Holocaust. You will never convince me the German people didn't know what was going on at Dachau. True, no one was gassed there or cremated, but the towns around Dachau and the people of Munich knew. I know Germans today that were part of the Hitler Youth program and were instructed to report on their own parents and family members. Hitler knew what he was doing in getting total submission of the German people. Dachau is the only concentration camp I have ever been to as I have never been to Poland. I would like to visit Poland some day and visit Auschwitz were the true horrors, experiments and deaths occurred. We must never forget.
I too feel that the average German knew something was going on
Trainloads of people heading to camps un noticed?
The smell of the camps
The clearing of the Ghettos, surely they noticed something was wrong?
i think that it was easy to bury your head and not notice. I am certain that the majority of germans if faced with a jewish person could not have physically killed them,but there is a sort of safety a sort of immunity when it is performed by others. Great hub- perhaps a little more detail next time, as you have obviously done an immense amount of reading
suzettenaples- Thank you for the fan mail. I appreciate your comments. And you are right, more and more historical evidence confirms the presence of hundreds of tiny, medium, and huge (Dachau) camps spread throughout the German countryside.
I think what we sometimes forget is that Hitler established the concentration camps to control his own people beginning in 1933. The death camps in Poland where millions of Jews, Poles, gypsies, Soviet POW's and others died were built much later, 1941-1942. Twelve short years and so much destruction...hard to believe even when you know it is true.
Just History - Thanks for your comments. I agree that it would have been almost impossible to live in Germany (maybe, even Europe) and not be aware that some pretty terrible things were being orchestrated by the government.
And you are also right the average citizen did not intend to physically harm, much less kill Jews, Gypsies, or any other group. But as you pointed out "groups" will do things that individuals would never do, especially when under tremendous pressure and unrelenting propaganda from their government.
I will work on providing more detail in the next three sections of this topic. As for research, oh my. My university professors were incredibly demanding taskmasters; I could never do enough research or reading to satisfy them. :) I look forward to reading some of your work, but first there is a pile of papers (as always) to grade. :)
Fantastic work and research. Recently I have heard people in Europe want to remove historical records of the "Death Camps" from all the history books and publications. There are even some that believe it was propaganda. I have some Jewish friends (Though they are dwindling fast today) that still bare the numbers from their imprisonment. Thanks for posting this!
Theresa...
It always intrigues me the way Hitler operated his camps and Stalin managed his...
Stalin's capricious whims would easily be the reason why someone ended up in the Gulag system. This very randomness inspired the fear every Soviet must have felt as he/she went through those decades...
Hitler, by comparison, codified each and every infraction that would land someone into his camps and did so in a deliberate fashion.
I have to think that, random or deliberate, the citizenry was certainly aware of the possibilities and options.
Wonderful research and presentation!
Thomas
Thomas - It is interesting how two oppressive regimes with leaders with such different approaches could result in such horrifying large civilian incarceration and death rates.
And yes, the Russian and German populations knew, quite deliberate I believe: terror hidden or concealed from the populace is totally ineffective. To be effective terror has to be incredibly public.
Interesting tangent: Despite the precise and organized rules applied to the concentration camps, historians have labeled Hitler a "disorganized charismatic leader."
Charismatic, of course meaning that he was very verbal, put almost noting in writing, and drew people to his cause through conversations and speeches.
Disorganized meaning that he often assigned tasks and projects to more than one group or branch within his government and than through his weight behind which ever group was most successful. Or he would decline to voice an opinion in a meeting until everyone one else had spoken and fought over the options at hand.
There is more to it that this and I feel like I am not explaining it well. Anyway, fascinating way to evaluate the choices he made and even to evaluate modern leadership styles.
Thanks for the encouraging comments. Theresa
You've taken on quite a weighty subject. I suppose we'll never know for certain how much the German people knew about war atrocities and/or death camps. Anyway, there's always plenty of subject matter regarding WWII, isn't there? Later!
Kosmo- Thank you for reading the Hub and for your comments. It is a weighty subject indeed.
Most Germans outside of the Nazi bureaucracy, the SS, and the railroad crews, knew very little or nothing at all about the Death Camps. Except for one, they were all located in the interior of Poland, quite hidden and secret. No one can or should hold the German people responsible for what transpired in defeated Poland.
However, after 15 years of study, I am convinced that we do know a great deal about what Germans knew about the concentration camp system - over 500 camps, most of them not as large or as famous as Dachau, of course - spread throughout Germany, many of them within a few miles of German towns and cities.
Groups of poorly clad and starving prisoners were frequently marched into and through towns and cities to various work projects and then marched back to camp each evening. Thousands of families and hundreds of neighborhoods were removed from towns and disappeared.
Perhaps even more important is the fact that the Nazis occasionally released people from the concentration camps and sent them home. And of course, they warned their families and friends not to run afoul of any Nazi regulations or restrictions. The Nazis knew they would talk, knew their descriptions of the camps would terrorize the local populations; after all, every oppressive regime exploits the fact that fearful people are obedient people.
I say all this on the basis of academic study, a family that emigrated from Eastern Europe in 1949, and on the basis of my Polish and German ancestry. Thank you for your comments. I appreciate them.
They knew and years after the war made it clear they didn't like Americans. The smart Germans got out as soon as they could knowing Hitler was a problem.
Moonlake- You are absolutely correct on all accounts. Thanks for commenting.
must65gt- Thank you for the encouraging words. Sorry it took me so long to respond. You are right, there are groups in Europe who claim it was all propaganda. Astonishing, when there is so much evidence in so many places and it is not terribly hard to find.
What I have heard about the last couple of years (usually from NPR, but occasionally in articles) are the comments made by various middle eastern leaders who hate Israel.
They make public statements about the fact that the Holocaust was simply a fabrication on the part of the Jews (and their supporters - the United States) intended to enable them to lay claim to more territory. Quite unbelievable claims, quite unrelenting hatred.
Very Interesting Hub! I have also studied this era with great interest and even did a couple of term papers on it. Also, being the child of an American Soldier and a German Mother born right after that period I asked lots of questions.
To me question should be what "the world" knew not just the Germans, because there were many countries and the Vatican who knew what was going on and did nothing and I wont even go into the international industries involved and the profits made from this.
The scary thing is that this is not just something one country or one culture is capable of it lies in all of us. It just takes the right circumstances to bring it out and the crowd mentality will do the rest. History has shown us enough examples of that.
Hi Justsilvie- You are absolutely correct. I teach European history at the university level and I am always appalled at what my students don't know about this period in history, I spend time every semester making sure they understand what the world knew, how they knew and when they knew.
Of course we discuss the terrible lack of response, or even concern, demonstrated by the western governments and most populations. It is crucial for them to know that there are almost always collaborators who assist the perpetrators either passively or actively.
Trying to address what "everyone knew" would have taken several months of intense research and writing (not something I can do with my current teaching responsibilities), so for the sake of these essays I had to narrow my focus. I am not trying to suggest that the Germans alone were involved.
As you said, the potential is there in all of us and under the right circumstances, unbelievably horrific and inhumane things can occur. Thanks for your comments. I would appreciate any feedback you might have on the other Hubs which focus on the Nazi Concentration camp system.
Well researched and well written article--such a big topic!
It is a big topic. One I have worked on off and on for fifteen years, ever since grad school. My father was Polish and he and his family immigrated to America shortly after WW II. So the history of that time was very real to me because I had living family who experienced the Nazi invasion as well as the Soviet takeover of Poland. Thank you for the encouraging and positive comments. Theresa
This is only partially related, but I'll say it anyway. As you might know, because of my own hub "Enemies of the People?,"my husband's family escaped Communist Yugoslavia and had an inside look at their prisons. My mother-in-law could read the signs and was trying to convince her husband they should get out before the German occupation and the rise of the Partisans, but my husband's father was unconvinced that such terrible things could happen in his country.
Before the last election in this country, there were many signs that presidential candidate Obama might be a Marxist who did not like our Constitution's limits on various branches of government. When I warned various well-meaning friends that some of his tactics were signs of things that could happen if he were elected, they all said the same thing: "This is America. That can't happen here."
That is exactly what my father-in-law thought about Yugoslavia. It's what many Jews in Germany thought and why they didn't leave when they could. It is that mindset that allows future dictators the foothold they need to get the absolute power that enables these atrocities.
My Russian history teacher when I was in graduate school had a profound influence on me as he explained how the Communists use a lot of well-meaning people who truly believe in helping the poor and fighting injustice, to lay the groundwork for a government overthrow. They use anyone they can. They love the protesters as long as they can use them. But if the protesters discover the new people they helped bring to power aren't interested in justice after all and continue to protest, they become the first occupants or the new prisons and reeducation camps -- if they are not eliminated outright.
We Americans think atrocities can't happen here and our government cannot be overthrown from within, but the Communists predicted in the 1960's they would bury us without firing a shot. The sheep will go willingly to the slaughter without having any idea where they are headed until it's too late. The important thing people need to study and remember is not the atrocities themselves (though we mustn't forget them) but how those who committed them were able to take power. Had they stated their real intentions when getting the support of the populace, they would not have been supported. Once they were in power, the populace in most cases were too cowed to speak out.
I am currently reading "The Road to Serfdom" by Friedrich A. Hayek, and it's a real eye-opener. I wish it were required reading in every high school, but it never will be. I'm not a wild-eyed extremist and I hate politics as an activity. I just don't want to wake up in 20 years (if I live that long) and see the America I love looking like the USSR did in 1960.
Thank you for telling me, telling us, about your background and influential people/scholars in your life. I think you are right we need to be more alert, more aware, and quicker to protest publicly when we see a destructive tendency in our government or in specific leaders. We cannot afford to be complacent.
Quite a few of the academics (who are mostly just right of center - we are so not a "Berkeley") at the private liberal arts university where I work were horrified at some of the abrogations of legal and judicial process, the expansion of police and surveillance power under President Bush's administration.
Many of those changes were a reaction to 9/11 and the threat of terrorism...still when the rules are changed or expanded in time of crisis, they seldom are returned to their original limits or intent. Quite scary.
I have not read the Hayek book, but it sounds like one I should read. Too bad we cannot get the books that we know would be beneficial for the next generation assigned in High School. And like you, I don;t want the next generation facing anything like the Soviet Union of the 60's. Thanks for your insightful comments. Theresa
I was also concerned about those things. Although I personally trusted Bush not to misuse these powers, I realized that once the power is there, the next administration also has access to it, and the next. A certain amount of intelligence is necessary, and some terrorists are being recruited from citizens born here, so we must be concerned about spotting them. But this should not be at the expense of the personal liberty of the average citizens. Part of our problem is political correctness and being afraid to call a spade a spade. We are afraid of profiling, even though it's probably more effective at spotting potential problems than searching everyone and his grandmother at the airport, and they still don't catch those who are potential terrorist who still get on flights. I'm not suggesting that everyone of a certain descent be suspected, and I would not want to see any one ethnic group turned against. But it is true that more of our terrorists tend to be of one ethnic group as opposed to others. It's a tricky problem to allow person liberty for all citizens while being on the alert for some who would use their liberties to destroy our country.
The version of the Hayek book I read was an abridged version that is easily understandable. We also have the full version, which I also intend to read as soon as possible. The abridged version is no longer than the average chapter of a textbook, but I doubt if it would be allowed into today's public schools because it directly contradicts the current curriculum which conditions students to be receptive to socialism.
You are so right, whatever changes or extensions of power one administration makes is still there for future administrations to misuse.
And the great difficulty is to catch the criminals and the terrorists and yet not jeopardize our liberties and freedoms. It is such a fine line at times. Thanks for all your responses. It is good to know that I am not the only person thinking about these kinds of things.
I will check out the Hayek book.
I have been studying this period in history at school this year and am taking an exam on it in the summer so I found this very interesting, especially all of the eye witness view points. Whenever I think about whether the average German new I am reminded of a very well known... I don't know what you would call it, a poem? An observation?
"First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out --
Because I was not a Socialist.
Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out --
Because I was not a Trade Unionist.
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out --
Because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for me -- and there was no one left to speak for me."
-Niemoller
And I feel that it doesn't really matter whether or not they knew exactly what Hitler was doing but they all knew he was doing something and that should have been enough.
Good luck with your summer exams. I hope they go well. I love the quote by Niemoller...it is so appropos, both to what happened during WW II and to any atrocity that people want to turn away from and. Thanks for coming by to read and to comment.
You may have seen by now, that I turned your question and my answer into a short Hub. It was a first for me, I had never done that before. I hope you don't mind. I will be watching for your future Hubs. :)
No I hadn't seen! What a good idea! What is it called so that I can read it? :)
Excellent article. I am sure I've read in more than one source that IBM played an essential part in helping the Germans deal with the logistics involved. The sheer scale of the camps, transportation, etc., required the expertise of IBM. I would be interested in hearing whether you feel that this is an accurate presentation of IBM's role. Sem
Thank you. There have been quite a few articles and even a couple of books that have been published in the last twenty years or so, and it is quite clear that IBM and other major corporations had no problem working with and helping the Nazis in order to generate profits. Whether IBM was helpful in the area of transportation, I don't know.
There is also a substantial and growing body of work documenting the degree to which German businesses and corporations worked with the Nazis. The Nazis supplied incredibly cheap and compliant labor and industrialists looked the other way, even when they were located inside actual camp complexes, such as Auschwitz.
Thanks for reading and commenting on my work; I realize my Hubs are not everyone's cup of tea and many of them deal with such unpleasant topics, so I really appreciate anyone taking the time to read and comment. Hope you are having a nice Christmas. Theresa
PH this is one of the most well put together Hub I've read in a long time.. the work you must have put into it.. a great share my friend :)
Thank you Frank. I appreciate your comments. There is a part II and III and today, in fact, I was doing a little polishing on Part IV. Hope to post it tonight or tomorrow. Soon I will need to work on course syllabi; spring semester courses begin in just over a week. :)
http://www.amazon.com/Memoirs-Jewish-Journalist-Ge
My late father was kicked out of the German Law Courts in 1933 for being Jewish. He became one of three accredited Jewish Journalists in prewar Nazi Germany. They knew what was going on. My father says they tried to warn Jews to get out, but they weren't believed. My aunt died because she didn't believe my father.
Stanley Milgram did some experiments in the 60s. Essentially, 96% of people are obedient to authority even when they know it is wrong. They will not go against peer pressure because they fear the consequences.
Sophia- Thanks for commenting. It is good to hear confirming stories (your father who was there) for what I have written. When I was conducting research I had access to the testimony of several hundred GI's who entered the camps and were part of the occupation after May 1945, but I didn't have any confirming evidence from Germans.
That would have required a trip to Germany and as I was in grad school and raising three young children, I had to content myself with archival research in America.
I find Milgram's and subsequent researchers experiments fascinating. I discuss them at length in my German History and Holocaust History classes. Peer pressure is stronger than most of us are willing to admit.
Great hub. Both of my parents lived in Europe during the war, mum in England near London and dad in Holland near Hell's Highway. Both have interesting stories to tell about wartime. Your hub was an extremely well written piece. I am looking forward to reading more!
Thank you Teresa. I appreciate your comments.
Excellent work phdast7, a very interesting topic and well-researched product that makes for good reading and stimulates the mind. As you pointed out, the scale of the undertaking was quite grand so it isn't far-fetched that a significant percentage of the German people knew what was happening, especially in the case of the concentration camps. Looking forward to reading the succeeding parts of your article.
Thank you very much Moira. I appreciate your comments. I think it is hard for us to imagine the actual size and complexity of the Nazi regime. They infiltrated everything.
Excellent, well-presented and researched article - thank you!
I am in a unique situation in that I not only grew up with a WW2 veteran who was there the day Dachau was liberated, but I also have family members who lived through Nazi Germany.
I have heard first hand stories from both. In the early to mid 1930s, the *camps* being formed in Germany were certainly known to the local townspeople. My German family members confirm this. Even though the nearest one was some distance away - they knew it existed. However, what they were initially TOLD its purpose was, was something quite different than its ultimate use. By the time they heard rumors and truths from eyewitnesses, it was much too late. (and they had to rely on word of mouth - it certainly wasn't on the German radio or in the newspapers. There was NO other way to get information inside Germany during those years) When BBC radio was first picked up discussing these camps, the family members I've spoken with weren't sure as to how true they were - after all, it was the opposite side telling the story.
But then... they began to hear the same thing from Germans themselves. And they knew. It was true.
They never physically saw one. A great uncle said that, yes, he many times saw train cars full of people moving through the area. When asked, he was told it was a prisoner transport. No one was allowed near the railways most of the time anyway because of fear of wartime espionage and disruptive acts. (whatever that really meant) You could go to the train station, but you knew better than to get too close to a moving or stopped train. If there were soldiers aboard, they would often shoot at you or over your head. I suppose very much in the way you should never get too close to military transports in the US - no matter how innocent you are, when the military has appropriated a road or a building - you don't get too close.
My point in this long comment is that, yes - they knew. But many of the German civilians knew the FULL facts far too late to stop it. By that time, you kept quiet, or you knew it would be you and your family in there as well.
It's hard for many of us to imagine now. It's hard for me to imagine. But I don't have children I'd be worried about protecting, either. Or elderly parents. Those were very real considerations for them.
Thank you for your comments. You are in a unique position to have the connection to a veteran and to family members who lived through those terrible times. And I think your assessment is right the German people knew about the camps, but they didn't know what went on inside and by the time they did, Germany was a police state and those who caused troubled, disappeared.
And as you say, the primary concern for anyone was protecting their children and their family. That is why I always make sure my students know that 95% of the people who escaped from the ghettos and camps and joined the partisan fighters in the forests were single , and usually, most if not all of their immediate family was already dead.
They could do dangerous and heroic things, actively resist the Nazis without risking the lives of their family. I also worry when people confuse the entire German population with the Nazi party or the SS, for example. We need to make the correct distinctions. Why in the last few weeks of the war army commanders in the field refused to carry out Hitler's "scorched earth policy."
Thanks again for your helpful and constructive comments. It is very hard for most people to fathom what went on there and most of us have no family members to talk to about it.
The war is still quite a sore sport with many Germans and Europeans. I like your footnotes, which gives authority to your statements. Voting this Up and Interesting.
Hi alocsin- I am sure that it is, which is why I do try to write very carefully and objectively and make sure I have lots of primary and secondary sources to confirm my statements. I appreciate your comments and votes. Thanks for stopping by.
Stopped by to read again such an informative and well written article. Thanks again for this posting and your research.
The Germans of couse knew about the camps. Many ordinary Germans carried out the mass murders probably because they were afraid if they didn't, they would be targeted next. This is a common thing in totalitarian regimes.
must65gt - Boy, you are a good friend and great Hubber. Stopping by for a second read. You may just be my favorite person right now! :) Seriously, thank you very much for the comments. I do appreciate them.
wba - Thanks for coming by and commenting on the Hub. You are right of course, far too often in totalitarian regimes, whether they are fascists on the far right or communists on the far left, the general populace is so intimidated and afraid of the police apparatus that it is hard for them to resist even when they do want to. There is always the fear of reprisals against any action the regime disapproves of.
I was stationed in Germany and visited Dachau in Munich a few times. One of the tour guides told me people in Munich were afraid to ask questions for fear of being put in the camp. If they asked "What was going on in there?" They were told, "How would you like to find out?"
Hi Budmaster - You are correct. Hitler and the Nazis ruled German on the basis of fear and terror and people were deathly afraid to speak out. Thanks for stopping by to read and for commenting. Oh, and welcome to HubPages. :)
I'm still checking back on this series. There are levels of concepts to be grasped from it all, and the hubs are generating interesting comments. Thanks again for sharing your work on this topic.
Thanks for checking back RT. These hubs have generated some interesting comments. I am surprised at the people who have a connection with WW II either through a family member who lived in Europe or a family mewmber who was in the military.
In march I will have a week off for Spring Break and I will try to write one or two more hubs aboutthe liberation of the concentration camps. I appreciate your visite, comments, and encouragement. :)
Hi! Good hub. Angie
Interesting hub!
Hi Angie - Thank you for stopping by to read and for your comments.
I will have to read your other hubs on this topic. I've always found it to be a fascinating question, one you clearly know much more about than I.
I imagine that it is difficult to make general statements about what the Germans knew. As individuals with different experiences, their knowledge of what was going on would vary. And in many cases, there were probably many living in denial both during the war and after. Some people probably did not want to know what was happening.
But even if people were unaware of the Polish death camps, I find it hard to believe that the population in general was unaware of atrocities committed against Jewish people and others viewed as inferior by the Nazis. Hitler was not exactly secretive about his racist views, and it would be hard to miss completely the fact that people of certain backgrounds were being locked up for no reason and had a habit of just disappearing entirely. But once again, if people felt powerless and intimidated, the easiest coping mechanism may have been to psychologically shut out the obvious so that they could live with themselves. And others, unfortunately, due to the circumstances of the 1930's, supported the racist program.
Freeway - Thank you for taking the time to read and respond. I think you are right, different people in different locations knew varying things. But everyone knew that people were disappearing and there was a lot of street violence and that ghettos were being established, because those things were happening all over Germany. And I am quite sure that most people lived in fear or denial or both. I would imagine that many many people hunkered down both physically and psychologically hoping to survive the war and Hitler's rule.
And I agree with you that many if not most Germans knew very little or nothing about the Death Camps, but as you pointed out Hitler and the Nazis were hardly secretive about the minorities and groups they despised and considered inferior. Nazi propaganda about the "outsiders" anyone who could not claim "Aryan" descent was a target.
Thanks for all the interesting and pertinent comments. I certainly appreciate them.
Phdast, very interesting hub. You have done so much and then your readers have added even more content with their comments. It is a very good point that Hitler could not have done this all by himself: many other people had to have been involved, or to have had some idea what was happening. How helpless those that knew must have felt, though, to stop such brutality. I am sure it must have been such a sickening feeling to suspect what was going on, but be unable to stop it.
Thanks for bringing your intellect and excellent research to Hubpages. I look forward to reading more of your work.
I think you are right, the Nazis terrorized even their own people and the average citizen was terribly afraid of the regime and did feel helpless.
I am very fortunate to have readers and followerswho can contribute a lot to the discussion. Thank you for your positive and encouraging comments. I look forward to more conversations with you. :)
love it!:) its so interesting and informative, you did a really great job on this hub article.
Thank you very much pongogirl2. So glad you stopped by to read. I appreciate your comment. :)
Wow phdast7, what a very well written and informative hub.
It has always amazed me that the vast majority of an entire nation stood by and accepted the fact that their own government rounded up, robbed, imprisoned, tortured, experimented, enslaved and murdered others because of their ethnicity. No riots, no protests, no rebellion of any kind.
Extremely amazing.
Especially when you consider the fact that rioting occurred in a very large city here in the U.S. because two white cops were acquitted for the savage beating of one black man !!
Thank you so much share - Even after all the years I have spent studying this, it is still hard to understand and accept. My students and I talk about it being a combination of (1) a people trained to be passive ans obedient. (2) a time and place that supported racism and anti-semitism, and (3) a leader and political party that were geniuses at propaganda and at controlling the population with fear.
Still, it is hard to believe they let it happen - we live in a very different culture and society, don't we? Thanks for stopping to read and taking the time to comment.
I totally agree with you phdast17 about the factors that led to this atrocity. But at the same time, there has to come a point when people start shaking their heads and saying enough is enough, there is something soooo wrong with this.
To me this seems so like sheep. They will continue to graze a few hundred feet away while another sheep is being devoured by a pack of wolves.
I would like to share something more, if I may. I would like to suggest An extreme lack of empathy and humanity should be added to those combinations that have been mentioned. Could it be that this particular nation of people are more prone to anti-social/sociopathic tendencies than other nations?
Is it nature or nurture? LOL
In closing, I would also like to share that my ethnicity consists of a large percentage of German/Austrian, mixed with Irish/Scottish and French.
Thanks for letting me vent phdast7. And thank you for sharing what you and your students discussed.
There are a number of scholars and books who have examined and commented on this "sheepish or slavish" tendency. Some of them are referring to the Germans and some of them are referring to the "Jews" who "let" themselves be slaughtered.
This accusation always makes me furious, because it is irrational, crazy, and stupid frankly, to make such an accusation about millions of Jews...as if millions of other nationalities were not also victims of the Nazis. Are we to assume that the millions of Polish Catholics and Soviet citizens and Soviet soldiers!! also "let" themselves be killed? Did they go like "sheep to the slaughter?" One of my rants, as you can see. :)
But to return to your point, some scholars have discussed the incredibly militaristic, paternalistic, obedience-focused society and government of Germany. They make some interesting points, but I am not entirely convinced.
But in thinking about your comment "extreme lack of empathy and humanity" I guess I think we often underestimate the virulence and evil implicit in racism, and especially anti-semitism. And when either of those things is not only supported, but actively encouraged by a strong government, the results are horrifying.
I am thinking of "smaller" holocausts - the Hutu and Tutsi in Rwanda, the Turks and the Armenians, the Japanese in China in the 1930's... I think we know less about these massacres and the numbers are "lower" simply because they were committed by governments and people who did not have the modern technology and efficient industrial processes that the Germans made such good use of.
Your background is interesting and not too different from mine. On my mothers's side English and Irish; on my Father's side 80% Polish and 20% German. My last name is German - Ast means branch.
And by all means, you are welcome to vent/rant at any time. They are useful and important vents and rants about important issues. I really appreciate your comments. Theresa
Well said Theresa. And oh yes, I am also horrified of the atrocities committed by the Hutus in Rwanda. I am not so much informed about the Turks and Armenians, will have to research that.
I am aware of the Japanese in China. Horrible. Very Horrible that people can act so terribly upon another race or ethnicity and feel "rational" and "justified" in doing so. I can't comprehend that. Not now, not ever !!
Why is it that there are those who can?
Thank you Share - "Why are there people who can comprehend the horrors and atrocities?" That is a very good question and I wish I knew the answer, but I do not. Maybe if we understood them, we could prevent or eliminate this terrible inhumanity that man visit upon his fellow man, believing it is entirely justifiable. But I am not too hopeful, sad to say. Thanks for all your interesting and helpful comments. Theresa
This e good research,its good for us that havent lived during that period to learn more on it in order to not repeat the same mistakes (http://www.wwuniversity.eu)
Hello worldwide - Thank you for your comment. I try very hard to do thorough and complete research on my history Hubs.
Very interesting - The average German knew all about not only the concentration camps but the extermination camps also. Some German friends of mine told me that German mothers scolded their children with not the British or American threat of "If you don't behave the boogy man will get you" but rather the more sinister "If you don't behave you will be the first up the chimney"
Of course they knew, but in fairness when your leaders were homicidal maniacs would you stand up and be counted ?
Kind regards Peter Geekie
Wow! An entire essay on HubPages. Very fascinating topic as well.
I debate how much people really knew about the issues. Either way, how many atrocities do we allow to go on in our country and around the world every day? Are we much better than the Germans were?
Interesting, voted up, and shared!
Hello Peter- Thank you for your comments. Many historians have felt like the average German probably knew a great deal about what was going on, including "up the chimney." But as a historian in my essays I limit myself to what there is incontrovertible proof for.
And as you said, we can recognize what they knew and also recognize the extreme fear in which most Germans lived. A terrible, terrible time. I look forwatd to reading some of your work and Thanks for sharing. :)
Hello Robert - Thank you for reading and commenting. I would agree atrocities are unfortunately not far and few between at all. Most nations and peoples have been involved in something cruel and shameful.
I would suggest though that there is a substantive difference in "allowing" atrocities to continue in a distant land and "planning and perpetrating them yourselves," which is what the Nazis did. There is much cruelty in this world that should be addressed, I simply write about what I know and studied in graduate school.
Thanks for the share. Great idea.
Interesting article. Thanks for sharing. Cheers!
am - Glad you found the article interesting. I appreciate your comments. Have a great weekend. :)
I do not think they did for this reason, they were so brainwashed in the NAZI religion that they didn't realize much of anything but to bow to the idol of Hitler. I hate Nazism and all it stood for then now and probably what some people do now with it.
An incredibly well-researched Hub, phdast7.
I agree with your distinction that the 'concentration' and 'death' camps were separate entities, though towards the end of the war things became incredibly muddled with the advance of the Allies and the subsequent unsuccessful emptying of the death camps and forced death marches and train trips back into the concentration camps within Germany. The populace must have been aware of this.
Also during the 12 years of the Third Reich the concentration camps were a serious deterrant to behaviour directed against the regime as was denunciation. The German people would know what went on there and also they would know that certain segments of the populace were 'disappearing' permanently. They of course could do nothing about this (apart from a few very brave souls) for fear of their own safety.
What an absolutely horrible and vile existence. I wonder how long it took for the 'average' German to realise what they'd done by putting the Nazis into power (albeit they gained it in a somewhat underhand way).
Thanks again, phdast7 - you've got my brain cell working hard here!!
Ian.
T: Do you realize this is the third hottest hub on HP right now? Wow - I can say I knew you when!!! Congrats
Hi Diane - Thanks for your comments. There is a lot of evidence suggesting that they knew about concentration camps, but probably not the death camps. You might want to read the rest of the series. Welcome to HubPages. We are glad you joined. :)
Ian - Thanks for your terrific and informative comments. You are absolutely correct. Toward the end of the war the distinction between the two systems blurred and broke down.
And except for the very brave who were wiling to risk their own and their families lives, there was not much they could do. Glad I could get your "brain cells working." :) Hope you come back to read more and I will be looking at your Hubs soon. :)
Kathleen - It took me a few minutes to figure out what you meant. I never look at that list (took me awhile to find it) because my hubs usually sit in the 60-80 range. I guess there is a first time for everything. :)
Thanks for letting me know. Otherwise I would never have known about my brief moment in the sun. :) I will never understand HP's algorithms and metrics. lol
Wow! Great hub! I have learned a lot! Waiting more hubs from you phdast7.
Hi lionee - Thanks for stopping by to read this article. I have quite a few hubs that deal with World War II and the Nazis. There isa little bit of everything on Hubpages. Welcome, by the way. :)
Kathleen - You have turned me into an egotistical maniac. Just checked the list and as of 4:16 am, this hub is sitting in the number one spot. I know it won't last long. :)
Why am I up at four in the morning? Good question. Three incredibly long days at school and about five hours of sleep each night. I am way too old for such nonsense. I crashed at 8pm, woke up at midnight and decided to catch up on HP. Crashing again very soon. :)
phdast7, Thanks for such a great hub. It is great to learn history, but we also need to learn from history. One of the comments stated that some US companies were directly or indirectly involved with that regime.
Companies do not have a face, and someone said that they trusted G.W. Bush with the power given after 9-11. I do not trust anyone with that much power because of research into the Bush family.
I have read from several sources that G.W.Bush and G.H.W. Bush are direct descendants of Prescott Bush, who had assets seized during and after these events in history for funding and supporting the NAZI regime by the U.S. Government.
I was just wanting to ask if you had run across this and is there any validity to this information.
The reason I ask this is because my grandfather was a WW2 warrior that was there. My business partner's wife is German, and her mother visits them on a regular basis and went through the historical events also and has stated on several occasions while watching the news that "They done this in Germany too".
She has warned us repeatedly that the U.S. is headed down the same road as Germany did in the 30's, leading to the travesty that occurred.
Do you have any knowledge, proof or documentation of the Bush Family supporting Hitler and the Nazi regime?
Thanks in advance, you wrote a wonderful hub.
phoenix - You are so very welcome. Thank you for your encouraging comments and great response. I was unaware of the connection between the Prescott Bush (and the later Bushes), his business interests, and the Nazis. Amazing.
I have never come across any information like that, but then, hundreds of books are published on World War II and National Socialism every singe year and I maybe read 4 or 5 of them (I stay pretty busy teaching college history classes).
There is no telling what I may have missed along the way. We do know there were a lot of American businesses involved with the Germans, and a lot of money supported the Nazis.
The German lady very possibly picks up on things that most of us don't pay any attention to, and we probably should. I am concerned that as we move to the right politically we are losing freedoms and don't realize the eventual danger we may be heading toward. The political center is always a more balanced and safer place to be.
I can recommend one book, by Naomi Wolf, that examines the governmental and legal changes in America since 9/11. You might want to look at it. I think it is called "Letters to my young..." Can't seem to remember it right now, but you should have no problem finding it.
I really do appreciate your encouraging comments. When you have time, you might want to read the other hubs about this time period. I will check out your home page as well. Have a great weekend.
Interesting. I'm definitely going to check out some of the sources that you have outlined here so that I can learn as much as possible about that. I knew that some of the Germans would disclaim the camps but I wondered how many would actually know that those existed.
Thanks for your comments mikey. Its hard to know for sure (and we never will) exactly what each person knew. All we can do is gather as much information as possible, analyze it and then make generalizations about what "most Germans probably knew." History is not an exact science, but we do the best we can. :)
Yea tell me about it. I have a history degree as well and about 90% of it seemed to be somebody's thoughts or opinions on a subject.
Thanks for writing about this important, and difficult, topic. It seems implausible that the Germans did not know about the camps, even if they did not know the full extent of the horror. The atrocities took place in the streets as well, and there was a clear mission to "eliminate" people. It looks like you are going to write more. I would love your thoughts on the implications of this knowledge. It was, of course, a very complicated time. What does it mean that the German people knew? Could more have been done if people had stepped up, or would they have simply been sacrificing their own lives? Do you think people would do things differently today if something this terrible happened again? Well, things this terrible are happening.... Lots of interesting stuff here!
Wow! between the hub and comments, this was extremely interesting.My mother is full blooded German and was extremely young during this period of time. She would talk of the American soldiers and how good to them the soldiers were.One day, mom told me her sisters, friends and her self were playing on this big thing (she didn't know what it was,too young to know)When all of a sudden American soldiers came running across the pit and grabbed all the kids. Turns out they were playing on a LIVE missle. These brave men possibly saved their lives! I know my family members ,were glad to see the Americans jump in and stop what they could. Even my older relatives spoke very highly of the Americans showing up.Your hub reminded me of their stories.Great Hub!They always talked about how the soldiers would give them oranges, fruits candy.My relatives went without food sometimes for days.My grandfather deserted my grandma and the kids completely.My mom and siblings would beg for day old bread from the bakers.Gathering food as children from any one they could,just to stay alive.I was always told, to say anything bad about Hitler would get you killed in a heart beat.Alot if not most of the Germans disagreed with his evil but were afraid to say anything.If you said the wrong thing to the wrong person, you had every right to fear for their own lives.Let's just say, It was a horrible time in history, that should have never happened.As far as what they knew about the camps.My family and friends from that era ,knew of the camps and horrible things were going on.Not to the extent they were. You'd have to know something horrid was happening if your commander and chief will kill you, for a single bad word about him.What was he likely to do to others?They may not have known EXACTLY what was going on,but they knew with Hitler it was really bad. They had no idea HOW to stop him, without winding up dead with their entire familys.
Laura - I wrote a response to your wonderful comments and questions last night, but it seems to have disappeared. My apologies. I wanted to let you know that your questions unleashed a torrent inside of me and as I tried to respond my answer got longer and longer. In the wee hours of the morning, I finally accepted the fact that I had written a Hub. I hope you don't mind that I referenced you and your questions in the Hub, "Grappling with...." Thanks again. Theresa
Rusti - Thank you for your positive and encouraging comments. Since your mother is German and her family lived in Germany and survived the Nazis and has first-hand knowledge, have any of them ever thought about writing down their experiences?
Has anyone in your family written an essay, a memoir, their personal reflections on living through that time? There might be a library or an archive that would be interested in preserving their stories. Of course, it is possible that it is simply too painful to contemplate. As a historian, my first thought is always too soon that people want to record their past, but of course that is not always true.
I am so glad to hear you say that your family had good experiences with the American GIs. I have read in many places that they basically liked the German people, and tried to treat them well. It is good to know that that is the truth, and that for the most part our soldiers conducted themselves honestly and were generous and kind.
I cannot imagine living with the sort of fear that they endured while the Nazis were in power. Knowing that to speak out against Hitler could mean arrest, torture, and death -- certainly would've made most people willing to be completely over media and compliant, at least in public. You had your own life and your family's life to be concerned about.
And I think you're exactly right, people knew about the camps, they knew or not these were oppressive and abusive, but most people certainly didn't have access to all the details of everything that went on, especially not what occurred in the death camps inside of Poland.
Abuse of power and tyranny is a terrible thing. We should feel grateful and blessed that we have not had to endure that. I really appreciate your comments and the fact that you felt comfortable sharing about your family.
I think there are so many people affected by this that we could write about it for a long time. It is so sad that so many horrible things occurred that in turn affected and killed so many people.
Diane - Thank you for your comments. It is sad and tragic that this took place in the 20th century. Even worse, similar, but smaller in number atrocities continue to take place around the world..
So true, I often wonder how people get away with being so mean to others, but Nazi Germany was worse than anything we see now, Do you agree.
This question, which genocide o atrocity was worst comes up again and again and some people get very angry and upset about it. My response is a little different.
1) I recognize that there are some genocides I know very little about and I also did not personally suffer in any of these government persecutions, so someone else may have much stronger feelings than me.
2) Numbers are not everything, but more people died under Stalin's rule than under Hitler's, although with Stalin most deaths are incidental to hard work, physical exposure, and starvation, whereas the Nazis built an industrial system to eradicate people. We don't know all the details yet, but the numbers of foreigners ad Chinese peasants who died at the hands of the communists may be even greater.
3) There there is the Rwandan Genocide, much smaller in numbers but horrifying and gruesome because the murders were so brutal and bloody and done "up close" with machetes and guns.
We have known for a long time that poisoning someone from a distance is much easier emotionally than shooting them with a rifle, which is easier than knifing them in the chest, which is easier than beating them to death with your fists. So I think of these kinds of things when I think about mass murder and torture.
4) I always think about whether unspeakably cruel and barbaric actions happened within a primitive society or within a highly educated and supposedly Christian, modern industrial civilization.
So for me, and this is a personal judgement, not an academic or logical one, the Nazi genocide seems more horrible because (1) it took place in a modern 'civilized" Christian nation. (2) So any people participated or were at the very least collaborators. (3) The Nazi goal was far more than death -- it was humiliation, degradation, cruelty, torture, horrifying experiments, starvation...and then death. Somehow to me that seems worse,but personally I do not encourage my students to think this way and I will not permit them to argue about it.
It is horrible.
My girlfriend is German and is always bragging about how Germans and Germany are so great. It kind of ticks me off that she says that when just roughly 70 years ago, their entire nation stood by and let this happen! The whole country, except for the resistance enabled such wickedness to occur. She doesn't like it too much when I bring it up.
Neither does she like it when I bring up the fact that she lived in the GDR and had to wait in lines around the block just to get a few bananas (apparently bananas were super special in the GDR).
Hi David - I imagine that it is irritating, but keep in mind that all these things happened many decades before she was born, and she didn't choose the country of her birth, or this terrible history. As horrified as I am about what happened in the 1930's and 1940's, I think it must be very hard to be German and have that in your past.
I don't know how they cope...maybe they cope by trying no to think about it. And most everyone loves and admires their country, their town, the people they grew up with (assuming their life was decent and they have good memories). It is probably best if the two of you don;t discuss or bring those difficult things up too often.
The only comparison I can give is that many years ago I met a foreigner who constantly talked about American slavery and how corrupt and cruel southerners were, and how could they do such terrible things and pretend they believed in freedom and liberty.
It was like h held me personally responsible for that awful period in American History. And of course I thought what happened during slavery was awful and tragic and a terrible time in American history. But he kept bringing it up and it was like he wanted me to apologize and take the blame
for slavery over and over. I couldn't take it and so we have not been friends for a very long time now. :(
I really do appreciate your stopping by to read and your comments. And welcome to HubPages. I hope you find lots of interesting and enjoyable things to rad and to write about. Have a great weekend.
I believe it is not possible to live in a country and have no idea about what happends there unless you are a 5 year old boy. The other question to what extend they might knew? How many russians you think knew about prisons at Stalins time? All. What did they know? They knew that those prisons were for enemies of Stalin! In that case their existance was morally and mentally approved.
its looks interesting,informative...so deep and clear ...and excellent....
MY Husband had distant german ancestors and it really bothers me that may have known what was going on and not spoken out. Of course I know there was fear and it is impossible to know the exact ages but after visiting Dachau I can only wonder how you could miss the smell and not wonder what your government was doing. Any insight on your part is very welcomed.
Pavlo - I completely agree with you. I do not think it is possible to "not know." How much one knows and when they found out might be areas worth researching, and of course many people have. It is useful and good for us who never lived in the Soviet Union, to hear the truth from someone who did. I appreciate your direct comments about what people knew who lived under the Stalinist regime.
Thank you for taking the time to read this essay and for your comments. Take care.
vims003 - Thank you you for your thoughtful and generous comment. I appreciate you taking the time to stop by and read. Hope you have a great weekend.
nancy - I am sure that it is troubling. You are right of course, they could not miss the smells and sights because they were spread all over Germany. But they did live in terrible, terrible fear ll the time.
The camps were started as soon as Hitler came to power and the only people sent there at first were criminals and political enemies (mostly communists and socialists). So it was easy for most people to think it didn't concern them (although a lot of Germans immigrated (until 38/39 when it was no longer possible) and then when the true horrors became known they were deathly afraid of being arrested themselves.
It was a very difficult time and similar things have happened and still happen all over the world. Thank you so much for your comments.
Hmmm. A case of the three Monkeys: Hear no evil, See no evil and Speak no evil! Great research and interesting. Voted Up!
Hi Kebennett1 - I never had anyone make reference to the Three Monkeys, but boy is it appropriate. Thanks for the votes and the positive comments.
will you have more authors whom you can write about I've never heard much about fieg- except on goodreads, but were there others (such as them?) who did write books? Very interesting.
Hi Rebecca -
Thank you for visiting and commenting on the hub. Because this was "original" research for a history dissertation (Emory University), I relied mostly on "primary sources - diaries, letters, veterans surveys, and lots of military reports, documents, etc., that were sent back to Army headquarters in Washington, from 1943-1947 (80% of my source material).
I used books for background material and to situate the individual veteran's stories in a larger historical frame work. Then of course I went on to teach European history, including the Holocaust for 18 years...so I can give you a list of very solid books, some are easy to read and some difficult. I will put ** in front of the books that I think are most accessible for the general reader.
Now that I have responded to your question, I think I will post most of my extended Bibliography of Secondary Sources as a Hub, in case there are others who would like to pursue some aspect of this topic. I won't be posting my list of primary sources (20+ pages) because there is no way to access them without visiting 12 different historical archives. Thank you for giving me the idea to do this. I hope this list is helpful.
Dr. Theresa L. Ast
**Abzug, Robert H. Inside the Vicious Heart: Americans and the Liberation of Nazi Concentration Camps. New York: Oxford University Press, 1985.
**Bridgman, Jon. The End of the Holocaust: The Liberation of the Camps. Portland, Oregon: Areopagitica Press, 1990.
**Dawidowicz, Lucy S. The War Against the Jews, 1933-1945. New York: Holt, Rinehart, and Winston, 1975. (long, very thorough, pretty easy to read)
Feig, Konnelyn G. Hitler's Death Camps: The Sanity of Madness. New York: Holmes & Meier Publishers, 1981.
Gilbert, Martin. Exile and Return. Philadelphia: Lippincott, 1978. (Bergen-Belsen).
Lipstadt, Deborah E. Beyond Belief: The American Press and The Coming of The Holocaust, 1933-1945. New York: Free Press, 1986.
McMahon, Gerald. Farthest East: A History of the 71st Infantry Division. Le Roy, New York: Yaderman Books, 1986.
**Selzer, Michael. Deliverance Day: The Last Hours of Dachau. Philadelphia?New York: J.B. Lippencott, 1978.
As one of your references "Hitler's Death Camps: The Sanity of Madness" refers, the silence grows when "collectivism" makes an appearance that normalizes people's prejudicial attitude. As one your commentators noted, "Never again. Never again." And let us not forget how the years following World War I provided the political fodder that allowed one like Hitler to rise up in the first place.
All Germans knew what was happening around them. Of course they will deny it but sure thing is that they knew. It is right in their noses that would be impossible unless they were blind or something
My mom does keep journals about growing up during that time. Someday she says because her spelling sucks lol she wants me to write a book about her life and living there.She talks about it to me though,has since I was a kid.
cynth - Thanks for taking time to read this Hub and for leaving such thoughtful comments. Much appreciated.
toggy - I think thy knew, the question is how much they knew, when they knew, and the fear and pressure they lived under because of the SS and the Gestapo. Thanks for stopping by and commenting.
Rusti - Well then you had better get ready to write a book. :) Your mother is a great first person - primary resource. And I think family history can be so meaningful. Right now I am working on editing a volume of my grandmother's poetry. Have a great weekend. :)
I just recently saw a play called "Letter to Sala" and it recounted a young girls journey through work camps which were not as bad as the concentration camps but were still imprisionment where the occupants were forced to work. When she left to go to the first camp she did not seem to know it would be for imprisonment. I wonder how much the Jews knew in the beginning about what was really going on?
Very interesting. I have never heard of the play, but I think the idea that she did not "know" at the beginning is very accurate. Two things come to mind: First, Jews had been off again, on again persecuted (pogroms) for centuries.
As horrifying as these event were (houses were burned, people were murdered) they were always local, one town or village, and usually very short lived, two days to two weeks. Then things would settle down. Most Jews thought that Nazi behavior and policies were part of that larger pattern - Christian anti-Semitism.
Second, the Nazis were masters of propaganda and misinformation. They had a neutral and deceptive euphemism for everything. One example: "Re-location" Well they were being relocated, but they were told it was to labor on farms - very few knew they were being transported to death camps.
After 1943 a few people knew what was really happening deep inside of Poland. But when they told their neighbors the response was usually, "You are mistaken, that is just craziness, no government would do that...and besides we are the Nazis labor force. They can't afford to get rid us, the German economy is based on our labor." It is complicated and very tragic. Thank you so much for your comments.
WannaB Writer Level 7 Commenter 6 months ago
Looks like you did a lot of research on this one